Episode 4. Tickling a rhino and bowing to the Shoebill. In conversation with Rob Walker

Apr 30, 24

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Episode 4. Tickling a rhino and bowing to the Shoebill. In conversation with Rob Walker

[00:00:00] Rob Walker: And what unadulterated joy this win will have triggered back home in Uganda, one of the friendliest, most beautiful countries you could ever wish to visit.

[00:00:21] Charlotte: During the 2020 Olympics, held in 2021, a little confusingly, the spontaneous praise of one man touched the hearts of Ugandans when athlete Joshua Cheptegei was awarded a gold medal. Uganda’s social media went into absolute meltdown for several days and Rob Walker, the BBC sports commentator, was inundated by hundreds of offers of beer, of land, questions about whether he had a Ugandan girlfriend or wife. This rapturous thanks is very typically Ugandan.

[00:01:02] I confess I’m not a sports fan. I didn’t know who Rob Walker was until this point, but I sensed a kindred spirit and I was intrigued to get to know who this man was because, like me, he is absolutely hooked on Uganda.

[00:01:22] Rob Walker has over 25 years’ experience in the TV industry as a broadcaster and commentator.

[00:01:29] We’re talking BBC Sport, Channel 4, The Olympics. He’s travelled to 50 countries commentating on anything to do with running including athletics and the triathlon, the Paralympics, snooker, darts, boxing, rugby and even sailing.

[00:01:48] A few things you might not know about Rob Walker. Not only is he a keen runner, but he’s known to complete a full marathon in under three hours. My own personal best is around the three hour mark as well, but for a half marathon! (He does have very long legs though). Another thing you might not know about Rob is he’s covered the Great Ethiopian Run in Addis Ababa for ten years for Channel 5 and the BBC. That gives you an idea of how strong his connection is to Africa and to running here.

[00:02:24] In this episode of the podcast, I compare notes with fellow Ugandaphile, Rob Walker, who’s been traveling to Africa for over 20 years. He tells us why he’s keen for his nine year old son, Arthur, to visit Africa as soon as possible. And he shares some unusual tips with us: how to tickle a rhino and how to greet a shoebill.

[00:02:52] I caught up with Rob at the Mestil Hotel in Kampala when he revisited as a guest of the Uganda Tourism Board. We had a chance to talk about his amazing eight day trip which included tracking the gorillas, of course, and some of the crazy sights he saw piled up on motorbikes in downtown Kampala. He also talks about two of Uganda’s greatest long distance runners, Joshua Cheptegei and Jacob Kiplimo, Olympic medalists and world record holders.

[00:03:26] Rob also explains how as a young graduate, he and some close friends started Exeter University Reunion Disco Night, which turned out to be so popular that the events netted him “20 grand” (£20,000), money that he used to bring a group of disadvantaged teenagers from the UK to Kenya and Uganda. He talks more about that in the podcast and The Prince’s Trust, set up by Prince Charles(as was) who helped Rob identify the right young people to come on this life changing experience.

[00:04:06] I must give you the heads-up on some of the local words that Rob uses in our conversation: A boda boda – a motorbike – several hundred thousand motorbikes, in fact.

[00:04:17] A matatu – a minibus.

[00:04:20] The famous matooke, which is a green, savoury banana, one of Uganda’s staple foods.

[00:04:26] And one of Rob’s favourite phrases : Oly’otya, how are you? A very casual, everyday greeting.

[00:04:35] “Eh! Maway! I have over talked.”

[00:04:38] Rob Walker, welcome to the East Africa Travel Podcast, hosted by me, Charlotte Beauvoisin, author of Diary of a Muzungu.

[00:04:50] What have you been doing in Uganda? How long have you been here?

[00:04:54] Rob Walker: I’ve just had the most memorable eight or nine days, I think, of my entire broadcasting career.

[00:05:03] I mean, it’s just been absolutely mind blowing. We’ve been everywhere, we seem to have done everything, and it’s just gone in an absolute blur.

[00:05:14] I’m being a bit more active on social media because I’m a guest of a country, and it’s a country I’m trying to promote, which is one of the reasons for coming here. And it’s the same country I fell in love with when I first came over landing in 2005.

[00:05:27] Charlotte: Yes. I wanted to ask you what first brought you to Uganda?

[00:05:30] Rob Walker: The very first African country I went to was South Africa when I went backpacking on my own when I was 26, and that was brilliant. My first trip to what I describe as East Africa was when I went to Kenya and Ethiopia in 2003 to make a documentary about the rivalry between the two nations in the lead up to the Paris World Athletics Championships in the summer of 2003. So I started this because I had the 20 grand. I spoke to the Prince’s Trust and I said “Look, I want to use this money to give six young people from around Britain (who would never otherwise have the opportunity to travel to somewhere like Africa), the opportunity to see an amazing continent that will fire them up, give them a different perspective on their own lives, and just expose them to the most amazing art, culture, music, banter, the whole works.”

[00:06:19] First one I did was an overland trip. I contacted the overland company I’ve been recommended to use them, and they said “Oh great! Okay.” I explained what it was.

[00:06:26] I said “Oh, you’re based in Kenya. So is it a tour of Kenya?” And they said “No, it’s a three week tour and we do half in Kenya and half of it in Uganda.”

[00:06:35] And I’d never been. I knew roughly where Uganda was, but I’d never been. And from that first time on the trip with the six young people, from the very first time I came to Uganda, I just loved it.

[00:06:46] Charlotte: So just going back to that first visit then, do you remember what you knew about Uganda before you actually came here?

[00:06:53] Rob Walker: Not much.

[00:06:54] Charlotte: Not much?

[00:06:54] Rob Walker: No, not much. Because the trip had taken so much of my energy to organize. I had simply, I think I got hold of a couple of charities: there was a place we used to work with, a really cool British guy called John Rendell, who works for or runs a charity called PEAS, which is Promoting Equality in African Schools.

[00:07:14] And he had this or was involved with this charity called Soft Power Education, so I had sourced a couple of days working and volunteering with them. But other than that, I didn’t know much about Uganda at all. But I’m very relaxed, I travel a lot, so if I go somewhere, I just take it on face value. And half the time, I’ve had so little time in the lead up to going somewhere. I’m not the type to research somewhere anyway.

[00:07:36] Charlotte: It’s funny, your first visit to Uganda is a bit like when I came here, because I spent two years preparing to be a volunteer with Voluntary Service Overseas. It was such a long process, that by the time I got my posting in Sub Saharan Africa, I came here without knowing what to expect. I got job offers in Cameroon and Ghana and it didn’t sound quite right. But then when I got the placement here, I didn’t have time to research. I just wanted to get on with my new life. And every British person I’d spoken to who’d worked here said “Just go to Uganda, you’ll love it.” And there’s something so special about this country, isn’t there, that so many of us, I always say “stay or we come back.” I’ve been here nearly 15 years, and you’ve been, how many trips have you been on now?

[00:08:21] Rob Walker: I can’t remember, it’s either nine or ten, including this one, one of the two.

[00:08:25] Charlotte: Yes, and you’re planning to come back with your family, is that right?

[00:08:27] Rob Walker: Listen, the earlier I can expose my son to the energy and the passion and all the great things that we love about this continent and country, the earlier I can start doing that, the better, because as I said, I was 26 when I went to South Africa, and Arthur’s 9, and he’s already started asking me questions. He was really curious about this trip, and I have lots of funny pictures I’m going to show him. He was curious” Oh, you met a president? Right, okay!”

[00:08:54] Charlotte: Wow, how many boys in his class can say that?

[00:08:58] Rob Walker: He’s probably forgotten by the time he got to school, but he his ears did seem to prick up and he’s asking me some interesting questions. But he loves animals. He absolutely loves animals. I do want him to have an African perspective and listen, I feel quite strongly. I’ve said this numerous times on interviews, and you’ve probably heard this from other muzungus who’ve got a passion for the continent: Africa and African nations are still so badly in many cases represented in terms of international media.

[00:09:28] I think there’s a lot of accidental ignorance about certain African countries. And I understand an element of why that happens because when you watch these massive fundraising nights where a country dedicates their main TV channel to I don’t know, raise money for Save the Children or Oxfam (or whatever it might be, whichever country it is) of course, in order to get people to pick up a phone or send a text message and donate five quid or ten quid, they have to show scenarios where the money is needed. But I still think this is the case in the UK. There are loads of people in Britain who could afford to come on holiday to Uganda but instead, they would go to South America, North America, they’d go to Thailand, they’d go to Australia, they’d go to New Zealand. And they might do a bit of backpacking in Europe, but it wouldn’t occur to them to come to Africa, because for some people there is still this slight unknown quantity about it. And I understand that to a degree. But the reality is you’re as safe in Kampala as you are in London, Paris, New York, Rome, Hong Kong, wherever, probably safer. In my opinion, there is definitely still some accidental ignorance towards this continent. It’s really important that people like me, who have a real affinity with the place, and a little bit of a profile, not much, but a bit, British people who’ve never been here will follow some of the tweets I’ve put out, you know, with the helicopter and various things, they’ll follow it with a sort of a curiosity. So when I go back, they can ask me about it. And also I’ve been given official Ugandan kit. Well, you know, I’m not really a fashion guy and I love, I love bold colours. I love bold colours.

[00:11:10] Charlotte: We won’t miss you now in Gloucestershire with the bright yellow tracksuit!

[00:11:12] Rob Walker: But then it’s important because when I’m going out, (I mean, I wouldn’t wear it out if I was going for a posh meal) but if I’m just out casually or I’m picking my son up, every time I wear that top, someone’s going to ask me a question about it.

[00:11:24] “Uganda, but what’s the story there?” “Well, it’s funny you say that…. Did you know that more than 50 percent of the world’s Mountain Gorilla population are in Uganda? You might have seen it on the sleeve of Arsenal that you go to Rwanda. You don’t. The best place to come and see the Mountain Gorillas is in Uganda, and that’s where it started.”

[00:11:40] If, all those conversations only lead to two muzungu families coming here for a holiday, you’ve made a difference. Because, as you’ve just alluded to, you either live here or you come back. You’ve only got to get people here once. The country does its own publicity because the people are so friendly. So you’ve just got to get them over that initial hurdle of “Oh, I’m going to Africa!”

[00:12:04] Charlotte: Thank you very much, Rob for your inspiring words about Uganda. Your passion comes across in everything you say. It’s very contagious and I’m very upbeat about Uganda. It’s not perfect.

[00:12:16] One of the things that I particularly love about this country is that you can walk around in a t- shirt nearly every day. You don’t have to think very often about putting a jumper on or taking an umbrella with you. I say that I didn’t move here for the weather, but it’s a very good reason for staying. What other things about Uganda do you think really stand out? We say the people are extremely friendly. What else is there that makes it such an easy destination, do you think?

[00:12:43] Rob Walker: It comes back to the people. Because, of course, we’re going to talk about the gorillas and the power of nature of Murchison Falls is unbelievable.

[00:12:51] What I found when I did the gorillas, I saw so much of what I recognised to be human interaction in these magnificent primates. It was actually quite not emotional, but it was quite an arresting moment to look into an animal’s eyes and think: I almost feel like there’s some kind of weird connection there. So I know that sounds stupid; and being so close to them that you can see individual hairs on their faces, and you can see how big their fingers and their fingernails are and the way that they interact with each other and pat each other like humans would. So that is phenomenal.

[00:13:30] But I think, look, if you take the gorillas out, let’s say someone comes here and they haven’t quite got the money to do the gorillas; they probably would save up if they’ve got the money to come to Uganda. You would think that they would incorporate that into their trip, but let’s put that aside just for one moment. The sheer beauty of the landscape is incredible. The rolling valleys and the steep banks and the farming that the locals manage to do. And the green, there’s so many different shades of green. It’s ridiculous. It’s just so beautiful. So if somebody said to me, what are the two selling points of Uganda? I would say the landscape. and the people and all the other stuff : there’s waterfalls , you can trek with gorillas and there’s Mount Rwenzori, is that how you say that?

[00:14:14] Charlotte: Rwenzori Mountains.

[00:14:14] Rob Walker: Rwenzori Mountains. The fact there’s snow in Uganda is pretty random and pretty cool. But it’s just the landscape.

[00:14:22] And I think as a third factor, it is incredibly safe. I’ve never (touch wood) felt threatened here, ever. And if you say hello to people, they’ll generally say hello back.

[00:14:33] Charlotte: Here in Uganda, when we walk down the road, we generally say hello and we greet each other, and it doesn’t necessarily go anywhere, but it just makes you feel good about life, doesn’t it?

[00:14:45] And I find myself doing it now when I go back in Uganda, to UK, and I think I don’t care what you think, this is such a big part of my life, I’m taking it wherever I go.

[00:14:53] Rob Walker: Yeah, it’s weird, I always find when I go back, the first couple of days, I have to stop myself saying “Oly’otya!” I suddenly think, hang on a minute, I’m back in the UK here.

[00:15:03] I’ve said it time and time again. It’s the friendliness of the people that is the number one selling point of this place. There is just everyday friendliness, and it permeates every level of society. When you’re in the back of a car, I might lean out, you know, like some of these matatu drivers are nutcases, and there was one guy yesterday, he was singing his head off, he’s had a bus full of passengers, you know, and they cram them into these tiny And he’s leaning out and he was singing away and I went “Oly’otya!” Like that. And he was laughing so I caught him having a sing song to himself. Just little moments like that are just brilliant because they’re meaningless, but then they’re not.

[00:15:40] Charlotte: But those minute human interactions are the things that we really missed during lockdown as well, weren’t they? And that’s what makes a trip here memorable: the grinning boda boda driver with the hook of matooke on the back or the huge Nile perch. Those little snippets of Uganda, I think, are what makes it such a special place.

[00:15:59] Rob Walker: Yeah, I mean, it’s just weird when you go around , especially for me because I live in such a rural place back home. It just thrives. Kampana thrives. Teams with life. It’s like a shoal of fish, you know, it’s everywhere you look. There’s something going on, maybe someone, carrying a fridge on the back of a motorbike and smiling or a massive foam mattress and thinking, where’s he going with that? It’s huge, generating so much wind resistance, it’s going to knock him off. But everybody seems to, nine times out of ten, get to where they need to go. It’s just, if you get it and you like it, it’s just brilliant. There’s just so much energy and so much banter. It’s a great, great place. And it – Uganda – deserves to have a better international profile as a tourist destination, and that is I guess the number one reason for me coming here is to try and play a tiny role in continuing to shout about Uganda to people who, would on first gut instinct dismiss it as a holiday destination.

[00:17:04] Charlotte: Because you can come here and see the gorillas. You can go running. You can go whitewater rafting. You can go on safari. We have sports fishing. I think you tried sports fishing, didn’t you?

[00:17:14] Rob Walker: I caught tilapia, but we ran out of time. It can take hours and hours and hours, and you can still end up catching nothing. But if you hook one, they’re massive, so, you can have a truly memorable experience. So yeah, I caught tilapia, and actually I’ve eaten tilapia as well. One of the places we went was the Entebbe Zoo, which is an amazing facility actually. I was really gob smacked, because normally I don’t like going to zoos, but it was explained to me that it isn’t really a zoo in the traditional sense.

[00:17:39] Charlotte: What, Uganda wildlife Education Centre?

[00:17:41] Rob Walker: Right, yeah . The animals are only there if they’re injured, and they would have died in the wild so that’s really good. And the education that they have for school children there is amazing. But they laid on a meal for me there, and it was this beautifully cooked tilapia. I’m not a massive fish fan, but I thought “How are you supposed to eat this?” It was tilapia and chips and you had to pick it off with your fingers, but it was beautifully cooked. And they said “Look, you can use cutlery if you want, but it’s so much harder to get the bones out.” And so I did what the rest of the table were doing, because I’ve been touring with some Ugandan journalists and broadcasters who’ve been documenting where I’ve been going and what’s unfolding. So I just sat with my fingers in this tilapia and had the chips and it was lush.

[00:18:26] Charlotte: And I saw a picture of you with a shoebill. Describe to listeners what a shoebill is like.

[00:18:31] Rob Walker: Well, I suppose it’s a bit like a more powerful looking heron, if you know what the herons are like back home. Excellent fishermen, because they sit there with their feet in the water and they can stand, totally rigid still.

[00:18:44] And then when the fish come up to feed on the surface, they can quickly pounce down. But the shoebill was amazing because most of them are quite shy. But this one, I can’t remember what they called it, came over.

[00:18:56] It’s quite a big, powerful bird. It can snap your fingers, if you get your fingers in its beak. And the wildlife warden said to me “Bow.” It sounds ludicrous, but I found myself bowing to this shoebill. And it bowed to me, and it’s a nod. You’re telling the bird, I’m no threat to you. And then the bird goes “Yeah, I’m no threat to you either, and now you can stroke my back.”

[00:19:22] So I stood there stroking a shoebill’s back, but I had to make sure I bowed right down before I looked it in the eye.

[00:19:29] Charlotte: Sounds like a courtship ritual.

[00:19:31] Rob Walker: I know, it’s mad, isn’t it?

[00:19:32] And then the other thing that they allowed me to do, which I didn’t think was possible, I saw these rhinos and they were either babies when the parents were killed with poaching, or there were some poaching issues.

[00:19:44] I was put in this enclosure. These two massive white, huge white rhinos. Obviously you were separated by a small fence, but they said, “Go over and feed them.” Well, I’ve seen white rhino in the wild, but in, I think, Nakuru Game Park in Kenya, but I never realised you could go that close to them. And then the bloke said to me “They like being scratched behind the ear.” The only part of a rhino where the skin is soft is a tiny, tiny little patch of skin immediately behind their ear, and it really comforts them. So all of a sudden I’ve just got back off the flight from Bwindi Impenetrable Forest. The whole thing’s been a whistle stop tour. And then the guy said, “Stroke the rhino behind the ear and feed it.” And I was just standing there thinking, this is insane, I’m stroking a white rhino behind the ear. And it was soft, when you felt it with your index finger and your middle finger, and you just rubbed it a bit. It did feel soft, and the rhino did seem to like it.

[00:20:46] Charlotte: Well, I don’t know how you’re going to sum up everything that you’ve done. You’ve been here how many days Rob now?

[00:20:51] Rob Walker: Nine days of just a whirlwind of energy, colour, noise, music, running. It’s been mental.

[00:20:59] Charlotte: Interviews, endless selfies. How many handshakes?

[00:21:02] Rob Walker: Hundreds!

[00:21:03] Charlotte: I wanted to thank you for coming and meeting Kampala Hash House Harriers. It was quite a riot in the end, wasn’t it?

[00:21:09] Rob Walker: I really enjoyed that. I mean, I have heard of Hashing before. I’ve done a couple, but generally actually, weirdly, I run on my own in the UK. I mean, we wouldn’t have a Hash where I live, it’s too rural. There wouldn’t be enough people to do it. But I love the principle of that. I guess the good thing about the Hash community is if you move somewhere as an expat, you’ve got an immediate sort of affinity with a group of people who like a run and like a beer.

[00:21:33] It is impossible for me to summarize what I’ve experienced over the last eight days. The only way I can sort of begin to process it is: without question, it’s been a trip of a lifetime to come here and to be greeted with such warmth.

[00:21:53] And for me to have made a difference to how people here feel about their own country, simply through commentary that I did on the Olympic Games in 2020(it was in 2021, but it’s still called Tokyo 20) and the World Champs last year and the Commonwealth Games last year when Jacob Kiplimo did the five and ten double, and then came up and hugged me at the end.

[00:22:13] He came and found me and then we had a moment there, so it was nice to see him. So for a place on the other side of the world to have taken me to their heart simply because I said what I knew to be true, which is it’s the friendliest country I’ve ever been to. I’ve probably traveled and worked in 40 to 50 countries around the world.

[00:22:32] I’ve been a broadcaster now for nearly 25 years. It’s probably been – other than births and weddings and really significant intimate family moments – it’s probably been the most amazing thing I’ve ever done as one trip. Just absolutely incredible meeting the president. I’m not interested in politics but I was greeted by the number one guy, so I just took it for what it was. Even just the hours in the helicopter looking out and waving to people, let alone the gorillas, let alone the waterfalls, let alone having some time with Joshua and Jacob. And Joshua said, “You’re a true friend to Uganda.” And you know, I’m almost passing out on the floor. It’s an Olympic champion saying that to me, some random muzungu who was born in Oxford, now lives in this tiny little quiet corner of the Cotswolds. It’s just really weird that my passion for athletics just seems to have struck a chord with people here.

[00:23:25] Listen, I’m going to continue doing everything I can. I feel like I’ve accidentally ended up in this position where I’m almost like an unofficial ambassador, one who doesn’t need to be paid, and therefore one who hasn’t got a hidden angle or agenda. So it’s put me in a little bit of a powerful position in terms of helping to spread the word that this is a great place. And that in itself is just nuts. But do you know what? Life’s a funny thing. And you can’t imagine some of the great things that happen to you and the great experiences you’ll have, you can’t plan or predict, and this has been one such example, so I’m just going with the flow. And I’m going to continue spreading the word about a brilliant country on an amazing continent that is so often misrepresented, but it’s not going to be when I’m speaking about it.

[00:24:11] Charlotte: Well, thank you so much, Rob Walker. I could spend hours listening to you, and I’ve got lots more questions that I’d love to ask you. Perhaps one day, perhaps we can do another interview when you’ve processed these most amazing days and weeks.

[00:24:27] I know that you’ve had hundreds of thousands of views on Twitter. I was looking at your tweet of yesterday; it got 100,000 views. I’m sure there’s many more coming so thank you very much for coming to Uganda. Thank you from so many hundreds and thousands of Ugandans who you have really inspired and please come back and visit us very soon.

[00:24:53] Rob Walker: Don’t doubt it. You’ll be having to lock up the airport, I’ll be back so often. Great to talk to you about it, Charlotte and thanks for all your steers and advice over the last few months.

[00:25:02] And yeah, wonderful trip, wonderful country. Won’t be the last time I’ll be back.

[00:25:08] Charlotte: Rob’s enthusiasm for Uganda knows no limits, and he has, since recording this podcast, been officially appointed Uganda’s Goodwill Sports Tourism Ambassador.

[00:25:22] You’ve been listening to the East Africa Travel Podcast, hosted by me, Charlotte Beauvoisin, author of Diary of a muzungu.

[00:25:31] If you enjoyed my conversation with Rob, please subscribe. And I’m sure you’ll want to check out the show notes for links to his social media.

[00:25:40] If you’re interested in planning a trip to Uganda, check out the show notes for links to my Travel Directory or just send me a message and I will see how I can advise you.

[00:25:51] A huge thank you to Rob Walker for being one of the very first guests on the East Africa Travel Podcast. I’ve met some extraordinary people during my 15 years living in Uganda and I look forward to introducing you to many of them over the coming months and years. They come from very different backgrounds, but what they all have in common is a love for Africa and for the natural world.

[00:26:20] Thanks for listening to this episode of the podcast.

[00:26:23] Now hit subscribe.

[00:26:26] You can find us on all the popular podcast directories, on Diary of a Muzungu blog and social media, and please feel free to comment, send in ideas, and share. Thanks for being a part of my audio adventures.

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